Okay, I just listened to the whole debate between Martha Rainville and Mark Shepard, who face off in the Republican Primary for the chance to run for Bernie's vacated US House seat against Democrat Peter Welch.
Here is a summary of the debate. I wrote it as I listened, as each candidate spoke, but these are not exact quotes. This is my paraphrasing of their statements.
This is not fully proof-read because it took way longer than I expected. Sorry.
There are also some comments of mine in italics/parenthesis.
I will say this: with a three-year-old babbling in the background, it is hard to focus on Rainville’s long-winded answers.
If there is any challenge to my version of events, please let me know asap by e-mailing me using the link in the sidebar, or by commenting.
The questions were asked by Mark Johnson, unless otherwise noted. He is referred to as "MJ" in some cases. "R" refers to Rainville; "S" refers to Shepard.
Here we go....
Experience:
S: Vermont native, worked in trades and as professional, business owner. State Senator for Bennington County. Legislative experience.
R: (I did not get this part. It is at the begining of the interview, so you can just listen to it if you want.)
War:
Some conservatives are now thinking that the US is losing the war in Iraq.
R: Good communication has been missing in this war. She believes that we are making progress in this war, but it is not steady – some steps back. We need to remain committed to the goal of turning it over to the Iraqis.
S: We should not call it quits now because we need to support what we started to help the Iraqis gain stability. He does not support a long-term occupation.
How much longer will Americans tolerate the war?
S: Not much longer - a year or two tops.
R: We can’t put a date on it. (I kind of nodded in and out of listening. Blah, blah, blah.)
Rebuttal:
S: The Middle Eastern nations want to see themselves as independent from a heavy American hand. We need to ensure stability and get out quickly as possible. We also need to move away from our dependency on that region.
MJ read Martha’s Quote: we are at one point supporters, at one point critics, asked what that means.
R: We need to support our troops, but also look critically at the info we are presented with.
Has the US done enough in the Israel/Lebanon conflict?
R: We took a step back and allowed the UN to work, which was a good approach. (Yeah, because all conservatives love the UN.)
S: I hesitate to pass judgment on Israel. Imagine us in Vermont being surrounded by people who wanted us annihilated. How can we judge how they deal with it?
I agree with Ms. Rainville that we do not need to jump into every conflict.
Nuclear power, domestic production of oil, ANWR drilling: Do you support?
S: I would support all in certain cases, but we need to look for new sources. In another 30-40-50 years we will have new sources that we haven’t even thought of.
I do not support subsidizing the oil industry. If we saw the true cost at the pump, instead of subsidizing with taxes, we would want to put more into new sources of energy, ie ethanol.
R: The only way to reduce foreign dependence, we need to increase domestic production. I support off-shore drilling and new refineries. No need to drill in ANWR right now. We need to wean ourselves off from fossil fuels, too. In the mean time, we need to increase refining capacity. Nuclear power has a place at the table, especially with new technology.
Get our kids involved with math, science, and engineering so they can find these future fuel sources.
What are you telling Republicans are the major differences between you?
S: I really have a lot of faith in the people – investing your own money in Social Security. The democratic process is more important than the end. This race started with us having different opinions on the issues, but the democratic process is being pushed aside and going along with that is part of the problem. Both parties are doing this and it is a problem.
R: There is a lot of common ground. Much more than most people would want to admit. There are differences and those come out when we are out talking to people. People around the state want change. Change from the way things are being done, they want things to get done. (What is she saying? What are the differences? I am not sure that she is answering this question. She is off on a tangent now.)
I guess I was right. MJ re-asks her the question.
R: She brought up S.S. since Shepard talked about it. She does not support privatization. Most Americans do not want that. We need to strengthen it long term, without cutting benefits, without raising payroll taxes, without raising the retirement age. (Good luck with that.)
What do you say when people say you will just support the GOP leadership?
S: (Hello dumb-ass, the GOP is supporting her. Obviously he has parted ways from their leadership.) This election has shown that he is not afraid to go against party leadership. (They wanted him to drop out of the race.)
R: I am there to serve Vermonters, not to serve the party or a particular party agenda. However, you are more successful as a leader when you bring people together.
To the phones…(At this point for some reason, I started using "I" instead of "he" and "she." Sorry about that, but I do not have time to fix it. These are still not exact quotes.)
Caller: Do you believe that abortion kills a human person?
R: I am pro-choice. I think we need to have parental notification for 16 and under, and I support a ban on partial birth abortion. I believe a woman should have a right to choose. I would not have one, but I believe that a woman should have a choice.
S: Pro-life. It is the same person inside or outside the womb. I have seen my own children inside the womb and it was the same person. They were all there. I can’t just put that aside. There are better solutions. I do not think ending the life of a young child is a good solution.
Caller: Questions about securing the borders, immigration policy, amnesty.
S: We need an immigration policy that allows for people to immigrate. We are a nation of immigrants. Securing both borders is important. I do not support an amnesty policy. I do not support tax-payer funds supporting folks that are here illegally. We need to have all immigrants go through a process to be here legally, but that doesn’t mean they will necessarily have to go back to Mexico to go through the process.
R: Both borders need to be secured. The needs are different, though. We need to address those differences. We need to address the immigration problem. I do not support amnesty. I do not support a purely punitive program because that will drive them underground. Our national security depends on knowing who’s here. We need to reform the legal immigration system.
MJ: Guest worker program?
R: We have to determine what immigrant we want here (good ones) and ones we don’t (bad ones). We have to realize the needs across the spectrum. Secure the borders and identify who’s here.
Caller: You say Vermonters need change, but you pledge to support the leadership. How do you reconcile that?
R: I don’t know what you mean by saying that I agreed to support the leadership.
MJ: Would you vote for the Democrat for House Speaker?
R: Probably not, I don’t see that voting for Nancy Pelosi – the likely candidate - would be in Vermont’s best interest. (HA, HA, HA! Good answer!)
Vermonters want to see someone who will make a change in the ethical landscape. I will look forward to putting in an ethics bill as my first bill. To have an objective office to resolve ethics violations instead of the party in power (either). Office of Public Integrity and a reform on lobbying.
S: Not just a Republican issue. It’s a mater of whether you support the status quo, the establishment politics. There are problems on both sides. I do not support all of the things that the GOP has done. NCLB, Medicare part D, how they handled New Orleans, just dumping billions down there. I also don’t see how you handle ethics reform by building another bureaucracy. The way you get ethics reform is by election people who have a record of doing things you think are right. An office will have a political agenda and cost tax-payers money.
If you care about finance reform, you can do something about it in this election. You do not get change by passing a law but by voting for someone who does not take special interest money – me.
Caller: Foreign policy – Iran. What is the best way to make sure that we are able to keep Iran in check? Domestic – too much power in government is root of corruption.
S: Iran - the young people in Iran see things different than the leadership. What kind of government will be in power when they get nukes? There is motivation in Iran for some change. I met someone at MIT from Iran. This is one way we make change there is by letting people come here and see democracy and take that back and tell people in their home country.
Power in government - The problem of people buying power comes from there being too much power to buy. At the federal government level, they are removed from the people whose money they are spending.
R: Iran – we have gone beyond looking at what would be nice and we need to look at what exists. They have been a huge player in the region. We are dealing with a culture and tradition that is very different than what we are used to dealing with. We need to take that into account. We need to work through other allies in the region. When we need to go in, we need to make sure we don’t underestimate where they are headed.
Power – I agree that there is too much involvement of the federal government in the state and in our lives. Ethics reform, finance reform, budget reform.
MJ: Would you set a time limit as you did when you were adjutant general?
R: I am looking into that. I think that it is important to have someone there who is not there for 30 years. I think the framers envisioned having different people come in and out of the congress.
MJ: Mark, would you limit yourself?
S: I limited myself in the state legislature. I am not sure we should have a law, but we might need one. I think the framers did envision having different people there.
Caller: Were you at any time in position of pictures or film of the 9/11 attacks?
R: I saw what you saw on CNN etc.
MJ: There are people who thing the government had to do with 9/11. What do you think?
R: I have not seen anything that would make me think that.
S: It is important to look into. I have not seen anything to make me think it is true, but sometime unbelievable things happen in our world.
Caller: Yes or no. Would you have voted to go to war?
S: Given the information at the time, probably yes. We know different things now. I still do not have the info congress had. I probably would have said yes.
R: I do not agree that that is a simple yes or no. I was not there, so I will not speculate. (What a load of crap answer!)
MJ: Who would you support for GOP Pres. In 2008?
R: McCain, but I don’t want to lock myself in.
S: I am still looking. I like McCain, but I do not like his finance reform. It locks out newcomers to politics. I support simplification of our finance system, simplification of our tax policy, simplification – not weakening, but simplification – of our regulatory policy, and I don’t see Sen. McCain going in that direction.
MJ: What American Pres. have you most respected?
S: In my lifetime, Reagan.
MJ: All through history, would your answer be the same?
S: Washington, John Adams (except when he closed the press off), Jefferson, Lincoln. We just have had some remarkable people in our history. That is why we are where we are.
R: In my lifetime, Reagan. He rebuilt our military, jumpstarted the economy. In history, Washington. He used his military experience, and provided leadership. Then left on his own when people wanted him to stay. Also Coolidge. He governed well without talking a lot. We can all learn a lot from him.
MJ: How would you rate Bush?
R: Weakness is communicating. I wish he would tell more of the good news about what is happening in our country. The growth in jobs and economy. The help that we are giving to the Iraqi people.
S: I think I would go around a “C.” There are some things I support. The tax cuts. The fact that freedom and democracy around the world help security. No Child Left Behind (NCLB) is a mistake. The federal government cannot govern education. Medicaid part D. A huge entitlement program that will cripple this country. Did not solve the drug price problem, just shifted who pays for it.
MJ: Do you support NCLB?
R: I support some of the goals. The cookie cutter approach does not work in Vermont. It was meant to solve problems in inner city schools. That does not work for VT. I also do not agree with the comments on Medicare part D. It helped many seniors in VT who have to choose between drugs and food. It is not perfect, but it has helped thousands and thousands of seniors in VT.
Rebuttal:
S: The NCLB circumvents the 10th amendment. I think there was a reason the founders set it up that way. You cannot control education from the federal government.
Medicare: I agree that it helped seniors, but there were other ways to help seniors. FDA process, patent laws, advertising. To think you have to pass a program like that quickly because you need a solution is wrong.
R: While we were working for that program, we would have seniors who would not have drugs.
What issue is of greatest concern to Vermonters that we have not addressed today.
S: Vermonters want to take care of their families. That happens through economic growth. I helped in Bennington with bringing in the micro-technology center. I have had clients of my business leave the state. That affects Vermonters ability to take care of their families. One thing would be I would let Vermonters buy health insurance anywhere. This can happen right now because it has support already.
R: Affordability. Fund unfunded mandates. Health savings accounts. She supports buying insurance anywhere. Encourage people to make good health choices. We need to (man, I totally lost this part because she started rambling on. Sorry.)
This was the end.
Overall Shepard was better. I liked his clear answers and his commitment to less government spending. He sounds more real and less like a politician. Yet, he has legislative experience.
Martha had some good answers, but she is too supportive of spending and bureaucracy for my liking. She also tends to ramble on with the answers that are too wordy. She should try to do more with less and sound less Washington.